One Thing Is For Sure After CES...

[OrangeCrush]

What did CES tell us more than anything else?

This is going to be a very long war!!

Almost every announcement that came out of CES can in fact be argued to be prolonging the war and not getting it to come to an end quickly.

Combo Player which is garbage as it doesn't support any of the HD DVD special features like IME and such is overall an announcement that most of the other BD companies were in fact not pleased with at all. They ever reported that they felt Combo Players would prolong the war and not make it end quicker. It was also argued that it was in fact a worse decision for BD than HD DVD as BD is considered to have the overall advantage with more studio support. You could tell that from the reaction from each group as the BD groups thought it was an overall negative announcement and HD DVD welcomed the announcement saying it was just going to be another machine in peoples homes that played HD DVD. Again BD felt the opposite and felt it was a negative step towards ending the war.

Then you have Hardware support which many people felt was HD DVD's weakest card in this entire war. You now have Onkyo, Meridan, Microsoft as well as some Chinese players that are expected to be very very cheap price wise. This basically takes what was HD DVD's weakest card and turns around and makes it one of HD DVD's strongest cards. HD DVD now has great hardware support with players spanning across the entire spectrum of pricing and entire spectrum of features. BD still didn't announce a cheaper 720p player for the 95% of the HDTV market that in fact only has 720p. A huge mistake and overall the hardware announcements coming out of CES are prolonging this war, good for HD DVD and bad for BD.

Then you have the actual movie titles and I am sure we will get a ton of people in here saying that HD DVD has no chance at beating BD in this area in 2007 and your absolutely right but they dont have to beat BD in this dept. to keep this war going. The only thing they have to do is continue to release top notch titles like they did for all of 2006 and I am 100% confident that they will. Again I am sure we will get people in here yapping it up about no title announcements from Universal but the bottom line is until the next few months actually pass without any support from Universal, your just guessing that them not announcing anything means that they in fact wont continue to support HD DVD like they did last year. Get back to me in a few months on this one period. HD DVD said they would have 300+ titles for 2007 and while that certainly wont trump BD and the 500-600 titles they could come out with in 2007, it is certainly enough to keep this war going strong. Bottom line is if they release the titles that were on that leaked HD DVD list which again I am 100% confident they will, there will be more titles for HD DVD released than most people could even afford to buy. Advantage without a doubt BD but HD DVD has plenty of amazing titles to release this year to keep this war going nice and strong.

They HD DVD picking up an exclusive studio plus picking up New Line. Bottom line is that while the studio support was disappointing in some people's eyes as they expected some major studios to go format neutral, I never expected this to happen before Christmas 2007 and the fact is that HD DVD has stronger studio support post CES than it did Pre CES. BD still has the advantage but that didn't stop HD DVD from having a stellar year in 2006 and it wont stop them from having a stellar year in 2007. Again the bottom line is that HD DVD is better off now on this front than it was pre CES. Again this is plenty to keep this war going strong!

Then you have the misc announcements like improved interactivity with HD DVD and improved storage capacity going from 15 to 17 gigs a layer and the possibility of a 50 gig disc at this time next year. Argue all you want about this, is it true or not true, will it be compatible in the old players or not, it doesn't make a difference. None of us know for sure what will happen in this dept. but it is a possibility and just anther thing to keep this war going strong.

So, In my humble opinion what this CES did more than anything else is just refuel this war more than anything else. Both camps had great announcements and both camps have amazing titles coming in 2007. Both camps have new players coming and both camps have things in the works that we will have to wait to find out more on. Both camps are stronger post CES than Pre CES. Just looking at some of the quotes coming from the people inside these companies, they are saying the exact same thing.

CES 2007 - The lines are drawn for 2007 and neither format is going anywhere anytime soon. That is the fact and Fox's statement about this war being over in 3 months is the most ludicrous, ridiculous, arrogant and ill informed statement I have heard yet in this war.

So fasten your seat belts and get ready for the ride of 2007. One thing is for sure and one thing only. This ride isnt stopping anytime in the near future and certainly not in 2007. The earliest I see any format conceding defeat and dropping out of the war would be summer of 2008.

OC...

[Harbinger]

While I'd have to agree that CES only cemented to war, I'd have to say kudos to the BDA.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Harbinger

While I'd have to agree that CES only cemented to war, I'd have to say kudos to the BDA.

Absolutly they both had great shows and they are both better off than they were before CES which is what you would expect really. Everyone will of course argue which one had the better showing and what is more important hardware support announcments or title announcments and that is all good and dandy especially on the smackdown forum.

Like I said, they are both stronger and this war is going to last at least another year and a half. It will be a great year for being a home theatre enthusiast and there are amazing titles coming for both. What I cant decide is wether to dump my SD DVD's now or hold on to them for my portable players. I just have such a masive amount my fiance is all over me to sell my SD versions. Ill of course keep my Criterion collection and all of my collector sets but for individual titles I am just torn big time. One one side it would be nice to clear out some space for the coming HD titles but its just hard selling SD discs when you get so little for them now.

OC...

[enigma]

I have been giving the SD versions to family and friends that have no interest in upgrading to HD anytime soon.

I don't think this is going to take as long as you think. The HD-DVD alliance is very fragile and if any one of the three waivers they will implode quickly. Tech alliances without redundancy can fall apary very quickly.

Basically it comes down to "Does universal have a vested interest in a prolonged war?" If yes, this will drag out a long time. If no they can end it in short order when they decide to.

[PJammin5]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

They HD DVD picking up an exclusive studio plus picking up New Line.

New Line is on board, but what is this exclusive studio you mention? are you referring to weinstein which i thought was believed to be exclusive pre ces?

[Dammenion]

Originally Posted by PJammin5

New Line is on board, but what is this exclusive studio you mention? are you referring to weinstein which i thought was believed to be exclusive pre ces?

I think he meant picking up a new studio as in "Digital Playground" and picking up New line since New line although is on board with TotalHD format they havent released HD material before.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

BD still didn't announce a cheaper 720p player for the 95% of the HDTV market that in fact only has 720p.

Where did this information come about? You think 95% of the installed HDTV base has 720p only?

Sorry but I feel like your thread is just yet another attempt to downplay how much more prominent Blu-ray's announcements at CES were to the watching public than HD DVD's.

[mick2006]

In my opinion, Blu Ray is here to stay, HD DVD possibly. And don't get me wrong, I love HD DVD-I really have no preference between the two in terms of quality-they both look great. The sure fire way to keep HD DVD going is as some others here have mentioned-Universal, New Line, ect. need to put their biggest titles out there for sale-that will guarantee that HD DVD is here to stay (if combined with a cheaper player-maybe around $200-$300). People who are Lord of the rings fans will buy the player simply to get the movies, and then once they have the player they will buy more movies. And I mean flood the market with these titles, really emphasize to people that they mean business, otherwise Blu Ray will kill HD DVD slowly and Universal will waiver in their support.

[zombieflanders]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

What did CES tell us more than anything else?

This is going to be a very long war!!

Well, yeah. I wasn't expecting any death blows, but apparently a lot of people here (on both sides) were.

Almost every announcement that came out of CES can in fact be argued to be prolonging the war and not getting it to come to an end quickly.

I would say it was just as much the lack of announcements that did the job. No one but Samsung and Toshiba announced players with specs, prices, or release dates. And of course Universal's presence at the show without announcing a lineup was odd, especially considering the flyer.

Combo Player which is garbage as it doesn't support any of the HD DVD special features like IME and such is overall an announcement that most of the other BD companies were in fact not pleased with at all. They ever reported that they felt Combo Players would prolong the war and not make it end quicker. It was also argued that it was in fact a worse decision for BD than HD DVD as BD is considered to have the overall advantage with more studio support. You could tell that from the reaction from each group as the BD groups thought it was an overall negative announcement and HD DVD welcomed the announcement saying it was just going to be another machine in peoples homes that played HD DVD. Again BD felt the opposite and felt it was a negative step towards ending the war.

I recall it was Microsoft and the DVD Forum that had the harshest reaction. What did the BDA say about the combo?

Then you have Hardware support which many people felt was HD DVD's weakest card in this entire war. You now have Onkyo, Meridan, Microsoft as well as some Chinese players that are expected to be very very cheap price wise. This basically takes what was HD DVD's weakest card and turns around and makes it one of HD DVD's strongest cards. HD DVD now has great hardware support with players spanning across the entire spectrum of pricing and entire spectrum of features.

"The entire spectrum of pricing and features" is kind of misleading. I think it's fair to assume the average consumer won't get in until the prices are well below the current low MSRP of $500. And I find it odd that on both sides, we're seeing players without DTS:MA, or BD-Live, or analog outs.

HD DVD said they would have 300+ titles for 2007 and while that certainly wont trump BD and the 500-600 titles they could come out with in 2007, it is certainly enough to keep this war going strong. Bottom line is if they release the titles that were on that leaked HD DVD list which again I am 100% confident they will, there will be more titles for HD DVD released than most people could even afford to buy.

As much as the BDA gets yelled at for they hype machine, the HD DVD camp is no different. Last year, we were looking at "over 200 titles" and the promise that HD DVD was crazy easy to make players for. 1 year later, around 150 titles have been released, and we still only have Toshiba selling standalones, and 1 other non-PC player (which requires additional equipment). To their credit, they sold well.

BD still has the advantage but that didn't stop HD DVD from having a stellar year in 2006 and it wont stop them from having a stellar year in 2007. Again the bottom line is that HD DVD is better off now on this front than it was pre CES. Again this is plenty to keep this war going strong!

So you're saying that by HD DVD going strong, they're prolonging the format war? I keed, I keed. Put down the keyboard, james.

Argue all you want about this, is it true or not true, will it be compatible in the old players or not, it doesn't make a difference.

If it doesn't work in the players, how does that not make a difference? That's an odd statement to say. And as a reminder, TL-45 discs were at the same point by this time last year, possibly farther, and look where they are now. It may be a possibility, but history has shown otherwise.

So, In my humble opinion what this CES did more than anything else is just refuel this war more than anything else. Both camps had great announcements and both camps have amazing titles coming in 2007. Both camps have new players coming and both camps have things in the works that we will have to wait to find out more on. Both camps are stronger post CES than Pre CES. Just looking at some of the quotes coming from the people inside these companies, they are saying the exact same thing.

This is an excellent summation of the status of the format war. Put it at "size=1" and stick it in a sig somewhere, 'cause it's pretty much the whole shebang.

[Ramenator]

"One Thing Is For Sure After CES..."

Actually there are a couple of things:

Universal will continue to support HD-DVD over the coming year, they made that clear

HD-DVD will continue to improve technologically

BD and HD-DVD will both have a lot of new titles released

Sony will not be put out of business regardless of whether or not the PS3 sells

[Gnome]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Where did this information come about? You think 95% of the installed HDTV base has 720p only?

Sorry but I feel like your thread is just yet another attempt to downplay how much more prominent Blu-ray's announcements at CES were to the watching public than HD DVD's.

I don't know if the number's are as high as 95%, but I would bet you good money that a vast majority of the HDTVs fall into that category. I am not an expert in this field but people tend to buy the cheaper HDTVs more than the expensive ones, what are the low to mid range models offering the public, and how long have they been overing them to the public?

[StingerNLG]

Flip through the Best Buy flyers these days. I would say 75-80% of all the HDTV's are 720p. Most of them are LCD's and such.

But there are a LOT of 720p units out there for sale, and they do at least APPEAR to outnumber the 1080p/1080i sets.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Where did this information come about? You think 95% of the installed HDTV base has 720p only?

Sorry but I feel like your thread is just yet another attempt to downplay how much more prominent Blu-ray's announcements at CES were to the watching public than HD DVD's.

Were did I get those numbers? Look anywhere on the net. You couldnt even get affordable 1080p until a few months back. 95% of the HDTV market is only 720p and there are hundreds of linksout there for you to go and back that up with.

OC...

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by zombieflanders

Well, yeah. I wasn't expecting any death blows, but apparently a lot of people here (on both sides) were.

I would say it was just as much the lack of announcements that did the job. No one but Samsung and Toshiba announced players with specs, prices, or release dates. And of course Universal's presence at the show without announcing a lineup was odd, especially considering the flyer.

I recall it was Microsoft and the DVD Forum that had the harshest reaction. What did the BDA say about the combo?

"The entire spectrum of pricing and features" is kind of misleading. I think it's fair to assume the average consumer won't get in until the prices are well below the current low MSRP of $500. And I find it odd that on both sides, we're seeing players without DTS:MA, or BD-Live, or analog outs.

As much as the BDA gets yelled at for they hype machine, the HD DVD camp is no different. Last year, we were looking at "over 200 titles" and the promise that HD DVD was crazy easy to make players for. 1 year later, around 150 titles have been released, and we still only have Toshiba selling standalones, and 1 other non-PC player (which requires additional equipment). To their credit, they sold well.

So you're saying that by HD DVD going strong, they're prolonging the format war? I keed, I keed. Put down the keyboard, james.

If it doesn't work in the players, how does that not make a difference? That's an odd statement to say. And as a reminder, TL-45 discs were at the same point by this time last year, possibly farther, and look where they are now. It may be a possibility, but history has shown otherwise.

This is an excellent summation of the status of the format war. Put it at "size=1" and stick it in a sig somewhere, 'cause it's pretty much the whole shebang.

Just go to engaget and read the original announcment thread for the Combo player. They state right in that thread that the HD DVD camp was very positive about it and specifically said that its just more units in peoples houses that play HD DVD's the BD camps were all very negative about it claimng that it was going to prolong this war even longer. Its what Engaget said they are saying so I am jut taking their word for it since I wasnt there to ask them myselves.

When I said it didnt make a difference I didnt mean that it didnt make a difference if it in fact didnt work, My point was that it doesnt make any difference how much people want to argue about it as we will all have to wait to find out if it is in fact true or not. (Referring to the TL/45 discs)

As I said before I wont argue about Universal. As it is now they are still only supporting HD DVD and they have said great titles are coming including like 10 that are absolute must haves in my book. Until that information is formally changed it means nothing to me how much the BD people want to laugh and claim that Universal is in fact coming to BD or going to stop supporting HDDVD. As of now that isnt the case and when that time comes, if it comes I will deal with it then cause as of now its uncofirmed rumors, hell they arent even rumors, they are assumptions. I have 100% faith that Universal will support HD DVD the same as they did in 2006 and again until that officially changes you guys can say whatever you want. It means nothing to me.


Yes I am saying that as long as HD DVD keeps going strong they are keeping the war going strong, HD DVD is the underdog and always has been. Every month that goes by that Sony continues to fail to knock them out the better it is for HD DVD period. How quickly people forget that HD DVD was supposed o be knowcked out in a matter of months when these products launched. Look how far we have come since then and the longer they are in this thing the better chance they have at either winning it or just remaining in the market besides BD. The longer this war goes on the more likly it will be that both formats will in fact survive so again yes, every month that Sony doesnt land that knock out punch is good for HD DVD.

My feeling remain completly unchanged and this thread summarizes exactly where I stand and how I feel about this war at this time.

OC..

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

Were did I get those numbers? Look anywhere on the net. You couldnt even get affordable 1080p until a few months back. 95% of the HDTV market is only 720p and there are hundreds of linksout there for you to go and back that up with.

OC...

You're leaving out 1080i, that was my point. There are more tvs out there that are 720p/1080i than any other kind and if anything there are more 1080i/no-720p sets than 720p/no-1080i, hence the problem with the PS3.