'NIN: Beside You in Time' - High-Def Digest Review

[kali]

Originally Posted by jimby

I am not sure what's up with the bitrate at that spot (50's probably a composite audio/video bitrate as the video max of BD is 40mbps.)

All the other peaks were in the 40s. It was just that one point where I saw it peak. The PS3 reports video and audio separately but I don't know how precise the indicator is. The fact that one spiked to 50 may have just been a quirk of the buffering or something.

Our compressionist did use near max bitrate in areas keep PQ high (if you got it, flaunt it

The screen is woven, semi-transparent, glass-beaded front-projection screen. Typical encoding nightmare. The moire is probably caused by the slightly greater detail of the woven pattern on BD encode, but I'd have to go back and take a look to make sure. I'm pretty sure that is on the source.

Jimby,

Thanks for the info and for looking into that further.

Since we're on the subject of bit-rates, could you guys comment if there is any recurring themes in the sorts of scenes that require very high bit rates?

For example, from watching the video there were many high contrast scenes that seemed to do pretty well at a lower (low 20s mb/s or lower) bit rate. In my viewing it seems like scenes with some combinations of motion, fine detail and low contrast tend to be encoded at high bit rates. But this is from the standpoint of a technical (Software Engineer with a small amount of knowledge of DSP and filter) amateur at the encoding process.

This would help me find good examples to look for in doing format and codec comparisons.

[enigma]

The PS3 bitrarte meter is know for not being the most accurate tool. You really need to average it across a few frames to get a more realistic feel for the stream rate.

What was interesting to me is I watched those same scenes on two diffrent players, the PS3 and the Samsung.

The PS3 showed the morie patterns and the samsung did not. The Sammy looked more like the HD DVD version but with slightly more crispness.

This could either be an result of the diffrent color spaces the devices output or it could be an issue with one of the decoders. I would expect the same source to decode to the same output on all players.

However, limitations of 4:2:2 may require filtering that 4:4:4 do not. I do not know which output (ps3 vs samsung) is more correct.

[jimby]

Originally Posted by kali

All the other peaks were in the 40s. It was just that one point where I saw it peak. The PS3 reports video and audio separately but I don't know how precise the indicator is. The fact that one spiked to 50 may have just been a quirk of the buffering or something.



Jimby,

Thanks for the info and for looking into that further.

Since we're on the subject of bit-rates, could you guys comment if there is any recurring themes in the sorts of scenes that require very high bit rates?

For example, from watching the video there were many high contrast scenes that seemed to do pretty well at a lower (low 20s mb/s or lower) bit rate. In my viewing it seems like scenes with some combinations of motion, fine detail and low contrast tend to be encoded at high bit rates. But this is from the standpoint of a technical (Software Engineer with a small amount of knowledge of DSP and filter) amateur at the encoding process.

This would help me find good examples to look for in doing format and codec comparisons.

Any scene with lots of camera motion will usually require a higher bitrate than a relatively static shot. The other killers were the fog/smoke effects, and the strobe lights. Strobe lights are particularly troublesome as the net effect is a completely different frame inserted into the sequence every time a strobe flash is recordered. Plus we were encoding at 1080/30, the max resolution and frame rate supported by the formats. Combine all of these effects together and you can see why this show was more difficult to encode than your average Hollywood movie.

The goal was to end up with an encode that did not show any obvious artifacts, maintained the color, contrast and detail of the live show, and worked within the bandwidth limitations of each format, given that we would be running an alternate angle on three songs and Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital tracks as well.

On the HD-DVD version we simply couldn't run the alternate angle content simultaneously and still maintain the quality, so that's why that material is a separate feature on the HD-DVD.

On the Blu-ray version, we actually ran into a disc space limitation and had to lose the redundant Dolby Digital encode (the BD version uses the Dolby Digital encode embedded in the Dolby TrueHD tracks. We originally had a separate DD encode so that there would be a menu selection for DD.)

[Sierra1049]

This is my disc of choice to demo my setup, especially for the incredible audio. The sound is, from top to bottom, awesome, especially at REALLY high volume Though I've liked NIN for years, the songs/lyrics are not for everyone (i.e. Closer) , so you need an open minded audience. Fantastic disc.

[Michael Scarn]

I brought this on DVD when it was released, is it worth upgrading to the Blu version? I think I've lost the DVD anyway (lol) but haven't listened to NIN for ages... So it's a bit of a conundrum!

[DanzBorin]

Originally Posted by Michael Scarn

I brought this on DVD when it was released, is it worth upgrading to the Blu version? I think I've lost the DVD anyway (lol) but haven't listened to NIN for ages... So it's a bit of a conundrum!

hell yeah it is!

makes the dvd look and sound like pewp...

[abefroman]

I work for the promoter at the Ford Center, Oklahoma City. I was there for THIS show. That day I was talking to the producer/director while they were filming pick-ups early in the day. What a show. I have a real point of referance and this is as good as it gets. As close as you can get to being there, without the sweat.

[crazzeto]

maybe one of these day's I'll pick this up.... I'm more of a causual NiN fan my self, but there seem to be a lot of songs there I like.

[Arturo Lugo]

Originally Posted by Michael Scarn

I brought this on DVD when it was released, is it worth upgrading to the Blu version? I think I've lost the DVD anyway (lol) but haven't listened to NIN for ages... So it's a bit of a conundrum!

This was a project tailor-made for High Definition. You definitely want to watch it that way. It blows the DVD out the water in both picture and sound, makes you wonder what's the point of getting the DVD of it...

Which leads to...

...format adoption! You get this for kicks and suddently become addicted to the format. Slowly you start thinking... what's the point of getting DVDs... at all? That's the power of this little mofo.

[HD 335]

The video and audio quality is absolutely stunning and anyone NIN fan should have this. The lightshow was pretty cool. Having said that, I'm a very casual fan and rented this from Netflix only to discover that most likely I will not replay this again anytime soon, so I have my sealed copy up for sale.