Questions About OPPO Settings

[ArroyoGrande]

I set my BDP-83 to pretty much everything "Auto" (HDMI resolution and all of the options under HDMI Settings like Scaling and Cue, Color Spacing, etc.) but after I wasn't that happy with the DVD upconversion, I contacted OPPO and they told me to do this:

We would recommend setting the player to 1080p/60Hz explicit and not Auto.

Set your Deep Color to 36-bit and ColorSpace to YCbCr 4:4:4 under Video Setup->HDMI. Leave De-Interlacing at Auto.

Set Primary Output to HDMI.

Ensure that your receiver is not set to do any video processing.

Disable any Motion or Cinemotion controls on your television.

I made the changes they mentioned here, and saw perhaps a slight increase in PQ, but should I be using Deep Color on 36-bit and Color Space at TcbCr 4:4:4 or should I return these to Auto (and Off for HDMI Deep Color)? Are these suggestions by OPPO legit?

[LordoftheRingsEE]

'Auto' is indeed the right setting. There is no sotware that use Deep Color 36-bit.
So 'OFF' indeed for HDMI Deep Color, and Color Space.

And Merry Christmas.

[ArroyoGrande]

'Auto' is indeed the right setting. There is no sotware that use Deep Color 36-bit.
So 'OFF' indeed for HDMI Deep Color, and Color Space.

And Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas & Happy Hannukah to You as Well.

Unfortunately, there is no "off" for Color Space; it's just Auto or YcbCr 4:4:4 and some other choices.

When I pressed OPPO about these settings, they made sure to tell me this (I know no software has Deep Color 36-bit):

Deep Color 36-bit is your best option. You will only use the DITHERED options if you are seeing excessive banding when playing DVD media.

Incorrect colorspace selection or handshakes will cause visual errors. You want to force a colorspace in order to ensure that you are not adding additional processing or incorrect processing.

and...

AUTO is a negotiation which may result in the improper output. To ensure that your player is always outputting as 1080p/60Hz, the optimal for your display, you will want to force the output revolution.

Deep Color processing can still be useful even on a television which does not support it. The reason is that the internal video processing is now done at a higher rate than if you had had it disabled. Please try enabling Deep Color 36-bit.

and...

You may be getting 1080p at when using AUTO, but we want to guarantee that you are always getting 1080p. The only way to guarantee this is to use 1080p explicitly.

Enabling Deep Color will increase the sampling rate on the VRS internally, even if the final signal will still be 30-bit. This is why we are having you use Deep Color, as it will increase the picture accuracy.

and...

The correct colorspace to use is determined by the native colorspace of your television. Your Sony natively samples at YCbCr 4:4:4.

I actually have many more messages from them stressing that I use 36-bit Deep Color and the YCbCr 4:4:4 Color Space setting, but I think you can get an idea from this...

[Josh Z]

I also posted this in the main OPPO BDP-83 thread.

While I trust what they're saying, are these the correct Color Space and Deep Color settings I should be using? Should the Deep Color be set to off rather than their 36-Bit suggestion? And the Color Space...should this be on "Auto" rather than their suggested "YCbCr 4:4:4"?

Further, should I keep the De-Interlacing and CUE settings to "Auto"? And is it okay to use their suggestion of "+4" for Noise Reduction?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

"Auto" is generally the correct deinterlacing setting. The ABT chip does an excellent job of detecting and compensating for proper cadence. If you play a lot of PAL DVDs, you may occasionally run into combing errors that need one of the 2:2 settings (try both until one looks right). But that's pretty rare.

The CUE setting is an odd inclusion in this player. The decoder chip in the BDP-83 doesn't suffer from CUE, so there's no need for that control. Basically, it's just a carry-over from the DVDO line of video processors that the ABT chip was originally designed for. If you turn it on, and the decoder doesn't have CUE problems, it doesn't do anything. So there's no harm in leaving it at Auto, but there's also no need to turn it on.

The color space setting will depend on how your TV processes color internally. All DVDs and Blu-rays are encoded at YCbCr 4:2:0 color space. Yet, in order for a picture to be displayed on your screen, it must be converted to RGB. This can happen in the disc player or in the display. Some displays will only accept YCbCr input signals, some only RGB, and some both.

I prefer to set the OPPO at 4:2:2 color space, which is the closest to a "native" output. That's because my projector processes colors at 4:2:2 internally. Although it will accept any type of color signal, it always converts them first to YCbCr 4:2:2 and then to RGB. So it would be fruitless to send it a 4:4:4 signal. That's an extra processing step it doesn't need. However, other displays may process internally at 4:4:4. In actual practice, it's extremely doubtful that you'll ever be able to see a visible difference in any of these settings.

As for Deep Color, if your TV doesn't support Deep Color, it's also very doubtful that you'll ever be able to see a difference between turning that setting on or off. OPPO makes a good point about it being better for the player to do its internal calculations at 36-bit whether you can use Deep Color or not. That helps to prevent rounding errors. I've left my player at that setting per their recommendation. But honestly I don't think it makes a real difference in practice.

The "dithered" settings help to prevent color banding on discs that suffer from it. They should only be used if the disc shows banding artifacts. For example, the 'Up' Blu-ray has some pretty severe banding around the 1-minute mark (look at the beam of the projector shining above the kid's head). Using either the 30-Bit Dithered or even the Off Dithered setting will dramatically reduce (but not totally eliminate, unforunately) those artifacts. But, again, I would not use this setting unless you really need it.

[ArroyoGrande]

Thanks Much, Josh. I understand you have a bit of experience with this unit, as you reviewed it here I believe. Let me address some individual statements:

I also posted this in the main OPPO BDP-83 thread.

Thanks; I posted it there after the fact because I figured it was a more appropriate area and it would garner better replies. I will check that thread as soon as I'm done here.

"Auto" is generally the correct deinterlacing setting. The ABT chip does an excellent job of detecting and compensating for proper cadence. If you play a lot of PAL DVDs, you may occasionally run into combing errors that need one of the 2:2 settings (try both until one looks right). But that's pretty rare.

Okay; so I suppose you're in agreement with OPPO in that the DE INTERLACING should definitely be set to AUTO. I shall keep that there. I only play Region 1 DVDs and Blu-rays, so I suppose AUTO is best. PAL would be a different region coding, right? So I should keep the "TV System" setting on the BDP-83 to "NTSC" correct?

The CUE setting is an odd inclusion in this player. The decoder chip in the BDP-83 doesn't suffer from CUE, so there's no need for that control. Basically, it's just a carry-over from the DVDO line of video processors that the ABT chip was originally designed for. If you turn it on, and the decoder doesn't have CUE problems, it doesn't do anything. So there's no harm in leaving it at Auto, but there's also no need to turn it on.

I was going to ask you this next -- and then I see you replied to it! I understand the player doesn't have the chroma problem (which plagued some early model Blu-ray players in their DVD upconversion) so it is indeed an odd inclusion here; should leaving it on AUTO be sufficient and enough?

The color space setting will depend on how your TV processes color internally. All DVDs and Blu-rays are encoded at YCbCr 4:2:0 color space. Yet, in order for a picture to be displayed on your screen, it must be converted to RGB. This can happen in the disc player or in the display. Some displays will only accept YCbCr input signals, some only RGB, and some both.

I prefer to set the OPPO at 4:2:2 color space, which is the closest to a "native" output. That's because my projector processes colors at 4:2:2 internally. Although it will accept any type of color signal, it always converts them first to YCbCr 4:2:2 and then to RGB. So it would be fruitless to send it a 4:4:4 signal. That's an extra processing step it doesn't need. However, other displays may process internally at 4:4:4. In actual practice, it's extremely doubtful that you'll ever be able to see a visible difference in any of these settings.

OPPO told me, after they did some research for me, that my Sony display natively displays at the 4:4:4, so that's what I should keep Color Space at; do you recommend leaving this on AUTO just to be sure the BDP-83 is doing something right? Or should I "force" the Color Space setting as they continue to suggest to me in every e-mail?

As for Deep Color, if your TV doesn't support Deep Color, it's also very doubtful that you'll ever be able to see a difference between turning that setting on or off. OPPO makes a good point about it being better for the player to do its internal calculations at 36-bit whether you can use Deep Color or not. That helps to prevent rounding errors. I've left my player at that setting per their recommendation. But honestly I don't think it makes a real difference in practice.

Thank you -- no matter how many times I press them or question this in e-mail correspondence to them, they stress to me to leave this at "36 Bits" to ensure the player itself is processing at a "higher rate" or such; to be honest, it seems since I switched this from the initial OFF position to the recommended "36 Bits," there has been some kind of "rich darkening" of the DVD images and colors. I know this sounds strange, but it's almost as if there's a "deeper look" to the colors -- even though one would think this is totally psychosematic because we're talking about DEEP Color. It could be my mind, but something has changed.

At the end of the day, does it hurt to keep Deep Color at "36 Bits" per their recommendation, rather than leave this OFF?

The "dithered" settings help to prevent color banding on discs that suffer from it. They should only be used if the disc shows banding artifacts. For example, the 'Up' Blu-ray has some pretty severe banding around the 1-minute mark (look at the beam of the projector shining above the kid's head). Using either the 30-Bit Dithered or even the Off Dithered setting will dramatically reduce (but not totally eliminate, unforunately) those artifacts. But, again, I would not use this setting unless you really need it.

Thank you for all your insight here. In conclusion of this last statement you make here, should the Deep Color be set to "36 Bits" per their recommendation? Or should I leave it off, do you think? I'd rather not adjust settings on a title-by-title basis, as I'm just not that kind of HT hobbyist/viewer; I'd like to set it-and-forget it. Is "36 Bits" OK here?

Finally, I know you're not one for Noise Reduction -- but can you give me your thoughts on OPPO's recommended "+4" NR setting for DVD and BD? In the past, most players offered just an ON/OFF toggle for NR, but on the BDP-83, you can specifically dial in NR from 0 to +8, and according to your review, the issue the OPPO's algorithm searches for to reduce is so vague, it ends up not doing much. That said, the manual claims that from 0 to +5, the player uses techniques to reduce mosquito noise while from +6 on, it reduces block noise and film grain issues -- when I have done tests on certain scenes, it seems no matter if it's Blu-ray or DVD, once the player hits "+7" on the NR, the softening and loss of detail begins. Hence, I have left it at "+6". Still, OPPO has recommended to be a setting of "+4" comfortably for little loss of detail. What are your thoughts on this?

[Josh Z]

Okay; so I suppose you're in agreement with OPPO in that the DE INTERLACING should definitely be set to AUTO. I shall keep that there. I only play Region 1 DVDs and Blu-rays, so I suppose AUTO is best. PAL would be a different region coding, right?

For standard definition, North America, Japan, Korea, and perhaps a few other countries use the NTSC format. Most of the rest of the world uses PAL. This is a separate issue from region coding. A PAL disc can be region free.

So I should keep the "TV System" setting on the BDP-83 to "NTSC" correct?

That depends on whether your HDTV can accept and display a PAL signal. It would be preferable to output a PAL disc natively as PAL, because PAL is slightly higher resolution than NTSC (576i vs. 480i). Also, the frame rate conversion from PAL's 50 Hz to NTSC's 60 Hz may introduce judder.

Some HDTVs can display PAL natively, but many can't. If yours can't, the OPPO can convert a PAL DVD to NTSC. If you never plan to watch a PAL DVD, this is a moot point anyway.

I was going to ask you this next -- and then I see you replied to it! I understand the player doesn't have the chroma problem (which plagued some early model Blu-ray players in their DVD upconversion) so it is indeed an odd inclusion here; should leaving it on AUTO be sufficient and enough?

Because the player doesn't have the chroma bug, that function defaults to off no matter what you set it for. It really doesn't matter. If it bothers you, you might as well just turn it off.

OPPO told me, after they did some research for me, that my Sony display natively displays at the 4:4:4, so that's what I should keep Color Space at; do you recommend leaving this on AUTO just to be sure the BDP-83 is doing something right? Or should I "force" the Color Space setting as they continue to suggest to me in every e-mail?

I would set it for 4:4:4.

At the end of the day, does it hurt to keep Deep Color at "36 Bits" per their recommendation, rather than leave this OFF?

It's possible that this may vary by display. In my experience, I can't see any difference at all. I don't think it hurts anything to leave it at 36-bit.

Thank you for all your insight here. In conclusion of this last statement you make here, should the Deep Color be set to "36 Bits" per their recommendation? Or should I leave it off, do you think? I'd rather not adjust settings on a title-by-title basis, as I'm just not that kind of HT hobbyist/viewer; I'd like to set it-and-forget it. Is "36 Bits" OK here?

This really comes down to a choice between 36-bit or 30-bit Dithered. The dithered setting should only be used if you see color banding on a disc. I would leave the player at 36-bit by default.

Finally, I know you're not one for Noise Reduction -- but can you give me your thoughts on OPPO's recommended "+4" NR setting for DVD and BD? In the past, most players offered just an ON/OFF toggle for NR, but on the BDP-83, you can specifically dial in NR from 0 to +8, and according to your review, the issue the OPPO's algorithm searches for to reduce is so vague, it ends up not doing much. That said, the manual claims that from 0 to +5, the player uses techniques to reduce mosquito noise while from +6 on, it reduces block noise and film grain issues -- when I have done tests on certain scenes, it seems no matter if it's Blu-ray or DVD, once the player hits "+7" on the NR, the softening and loss of detail begins. Hence, I have left it at "+6". Still, OPPO has recommended to be a setting of "+4" comfortably for little loss of detail. What are your thoughts on this?

I leave mine at 0. The "Noise Reduction" settings in the ABT chip don't actually reduce noise until you crank them up enough that the picture visibly softens. There is no ideal setting that will reduce noise without softening the picture. It sounds like on your screen, +7 is that mark. Anything below +7, no noise is being reduced at all. Anything from +7 up, the picture gets soft. There's no point in leaving it at either +4 or +6. They're not helping your picture at all, and can only do harm. Turn it off.

[ArroyoGrande]

For standard definition, North America, Japan, Korea, and perhaps a few other countries use the NTSC format. Most of the rest of the world uses PAL. This is a separate issue from region coding. A PAL disc can be region free.

So, being that I am indeed in North America, I should leave my BDP-83's region setting on NTSC?

That depends on whether your HDTV can accept and display a PAL signal. It would be preferable to output a PAL disc natively as PAL, because PAL is slightly higher resolution than NTSC (576i vs. 480i). Also, the frame rate conversion from PAL's 50 Hz to NTSC's 60 Hz may introduce judder.

Some HDTVs can display PAL natively, but many can't. If yours can't, the OPPO can convert a PAL DVD to NTSC. If you never plan to watch a PAL DVD, this is a moot point anyway.

No, I don't plan to watch a PAL DVD, as far as I know right now. So, NTSC is correct?

Because the player doesn't have the chroma bug, that function defaults to off no matter what you set it for. It really doesn't matter. If it bothers you, you might as well just turn it off.

Really? Even at "Auto" the player is actually defaulting to "Off" for the CUE function?

I would set it for 4:4:4.

Per OPPO's recommendation, yes?

It's possible that this may vary by display. In my experience, I can't see any difference at all. I don't think it hurts anything to leave it at 36-bit.

Okay; it just seems that you were of agreement that OPPO's suggestions as to why 36-Bits should be used seemed logical and correct; according to them, the BDP-83 will process the signal at a higher rate or some such statement. Do you agree with this? They told me that no matter whether my display accepts or supports Deep Color at all, the player itself will be processing in a more effective fashion at 36-Bits, so the overall image should be better.

This really comes down to a choice between 36-bit or 30-bit Dithered. The dithered setting should only be used if you see color banding on a disc. I would leave the player at 36-bit by default.

As just previously discussed, yes? Leave Deep Color at 36-Bits?

I leave mine at 0. The "Noise Reduction" settings in the ABT chip don't actually reduce noise until you crank them up enough that the picture visibly softens.

That's disheartening and something I didn't know before I got the player; on my previous player, the DNR "ON" function dramatically reduced block and mosquito noise on DVDs without softening the picture too much. But indeed I am finding that, as you state above, the chip doesn't do much of anything until you're at the extreme range of the NR control.

There is no ideal setting that will reduce noise without softening the picture. It sounds like on your screen, +7 is that mark.

Yes. At +7, the picture is softened and skintones go flat; just below this seems like a good compromise, but I'm uncertain if +6 is even doing anything...

Anything below +7, no noise is being reduced at all. Anything from +7 up, the picture gets soft. There's no point in leaving it at either +4 or +6. They're not helping your picture at all, and can only do harm. Turn it off.

The thing is, there are so many DVDs in my collection that could definitely benefit from using the noise reduction; just last night, we popped in the original non anamorphic transfer of While You Were Sleeping, and this is one horrendous looking disc. It was completely unwatchable, almost, until I said "screw it," and jacked the NR up to +6. Now, artifacts were indeed present still, but it made it a bit more tolerable.

Should I maybe look to my display's Noise Reduction settings instead? Right now, I keep the display's NR on "Low" (out of a choice of Low, Medium and High). Should I try using that control instead of the BDP-83's?

Thanks for your continued assistance with this.

[Josh Z]

No, I don't plan to watch a PAL DVD, as far as I know right now. So, NTSC is correct?

Yes, NTSC.

Really? Even at "Auto" the player is actually defaulting to "Off" for the CUE function?

If the player doesn't have the chroma bug, there's nothing for that function to do, so it goes idle. You can turn it off.

Okay; it just seems that you were of agreement that OPPO's suggestions as to why 36-Bits should be used seemed logical and correct; according to them, the BDP-83 will process the signal at a higher rate or some such statement. Do you agree with this?

I am inclined to agree with them.

Should I maybe look to my display's Noise Reduction settings instead? Right now, I keep the display's NR on "Low" (out of a choice of Low, Medium and High). Should I try using that control instead of the BDP-83's?

If you have DNR turned on in both the player and the TV, you're doing double the filtering. That's never a good thing. You should do one or the other, if you really need it. But you should not leave NR turned on by default in either case. You should only turn it on for discs that really need it. Otherwise, you're just throwing away perfectly good detail on all of your Blu-rays.

[ArroyoGrande]

Yes, NTSC.

Thanks.

If the player doesn't have the chroma bug, there's nothing for that function to do, so it goes idle. You can turn it off.

Okay. But "Auto" doesn't hurt either, does it? I just feel more comfortable using what OPPO suggests in the manual for this.

I am inclined to agree with them.

Okay. Thank you. But is it possible that what they're saying is true, that the player itself will be "sampling" or "processing" at a higher/better "rate" at 36-Bits? And would this affect BD as well as DVD?

If you have DNR turned on in both the player and the TV, you're doing double the filtering. That's never a good thing. You should do one or the other, if you really need it. But you should not leave NR turned on by default in either case. You should only turn it on for discs that really need it. Otherwise, you're just throwing away perfectly good detail on all of your Blu-rays.

This is interesting and worthy of further discussion. To be honest, it seems as though my display's "Low" NR setting doesn't do much of anything, so it seems to be akin to leaving it "Off." My reasoning for using the Low setting has been that since I primarily used the DNR from my last BD player for DVD playback, the display at least can be set to Low so it doesn't crush any more detail any further.

Still, I understand what you're saying about both filters being turned on; see, the problem has always been that what most people call "detail" on Blu-rays I have equated with "noise" and "unwanted grain." I understand perfectly that grain is what is inherent in film sources, but I don't really see any "detail" if a source looks twitchy and "noisy." When you say "throwing away perfectly good detail" on Blu-rays when DNR is used, are you referring to background detail elements in shots, or facial closeups that may become "waxy looking"?

As I said, this "wax effect" seems to happen once my BDP-83 hits the "+7" mark on DNR -- so I backed off to +6. The "detail" seems to return at this lowered level.

[ArroyoGrande]

In resurrecting this thread because of another question I had regarding this player, here's an interesting issue to ponder...

When I calibrate my display using a standard-definition DVD calibration disc, the sharpness pattern -- the typical black-and-white stripe test -- does not seem to change one way or the other when I adjust the Sharpness control of my TV. I see no change in the distortion of the stripes, and this happens when I try it with the THX Optimizer test pattern as well (similar black-and-white stripes)...nothing happens when I move the Sharpness control up or down to the extremes with these tests. This is with the OPPO at 1080p, so it's upscaling the DVD video at this point.

BUT...when I use a high-definition calibration disc such as the Spears & Munsil Benchmark Blu-ray, or the DVE HD Basics Blu-ray, their sharpness patterns are clearly adjustable with my display's Sharpness control...you can clearly see the edges of the lines in the patterns getting fuzzy with noisy halos and then clearing up again as you raise and lower the control. This indicates to me the pattern is working with high-definition sources.

But why wouldn't I be able to see the patterns changing on the standard DVD test discs as I move the Sharpness control? Is this normal?

[Josh Z]

No, that's not normal. What SD calibration disc are you using?

[ArroyoGrande]

No, that's not normal. What SD calibration disc are you using?

I used two: The THX Optimizer pattern and a DiscWasher "Digital Maintenance" setup disc. Both show absolutely no change to sharpness with the black and white stripe test.

But, as I said, I CAN see the change with high definition calibration discs and their sharpness patterns.

[ArroyoGrande]

Here's another concern I had after reading this current reply from OPPO regarding the Anchor Bay's scaling/noise reduction abilities:

The ABT has been designed to be as accurate to the source material as possible. It has not been designed, unlike the Reon Realta/Reon or Gennum VXP, to clean up visual errors associated to noise. The player should perform admirably in terms of de-interlacing, scaling, color space conversion, and preserving the original detail of the source.

Now I feel as though I should have just saved up for a player that boasted a Reon/Realta chip because cleaning up lousy transfers and eliminating noise and junk from the transfers is a top priority for me. Looks like the OPPO wasn't the right choice in that regard...

[Blacklac]

Here's another concern I had after reading this current reply from OPPO regarding the Anchor Bay's scaling/noise reduction abilities:

The ABT has been designed to be as accurate to the source material as possible. It has not been designed, unlike the Reon Realta/Reon or Gennum VXP, to clean up visual errors associated to noise. The player should perform admirably in terms of de-interlacing, scaling, color space conversion, and preserving the original detail of the source.

Now I feel as though I should have just saved up for a player that boasted a Reon/Realta chip because cleaning up lousy transfers and eliminating noise and junk from the transfers is a top priority for me. Looks like the OPPO wasn't the right choice in that regard...

I have used the Oppo 983 (same processing as the BD 83) and I own an Onkyo 805 HD DVD player (with Reon). To me, the Oppo was slightly better, with SD DVD. IMO, you made a wise decision.

[ArroyoGrande]

I have used the Oppo 983 (same processing as the BD 83) and I own an Onkyo 805 HD DVD player (with Reon). To me, the Oppo was slightly better, with SD DVD. IMO, you made a wise decision.

Hello Black,

Thanks for your thoughts and input. That's very surprising about your Onkyo's Reon being a bit behind the OPPO's Anchor Bay chip; I never would have guessed that. I too had a 983 DVD player, but returned it to wait for a Blu-ray player that offered great DVD upconversion -- I thought I found it in the BDP-83, but that last clip that I provided from OPPO, which they just sent me, seemed a bit disheartening. According to them, the Anchor Bay VRS isn't supposed to really "clean up" slightly poor DVD transfers, and the Reon technology is more for doing that -- could it be the way Onkyo implemented the Reon in your HD DVD player?

Can you give me some examples of how you thought the OPPO did slightly better on DVD upconversion?

Thanks again for your input.