3-D "live" look: requires 1080P TV?

[epvtesb]

Hi all,
I just purchased the Panasonic DMP-BD35K and hooked it up via HDMI to my JVC 52" 720P tv. Works fine but Blu-ray disc displays look the same as HD-DVD displays via my HD-A35.
I was expecting the awesome "3-D: live" look on the Blu-ray discs I've seen in the stores.
1) Does obtaining that look require a 1080P tv?
2) Or is there a setting I need to adjust on the player?
3) Or does that look only come with recent releases? So far, I've only tested scenes from the Spiderman trilogy and Independence Day.

[mpalmieri1203]

Yes it just require a 120hz TV. To be honest these modes suck and add lots of artifacting to the picture.

The TV van apply that effect to any source you have coming in it's not exclusive to BD. And is undesirable to most.

BLu-ray PQ is pretty much = to HD-DVD, especially on a 720p TV.

[Blinx123]

I don't think it's the 120Hz artificial look the OP saw.

I saw this 3D look myself. But only on a 720p/24p Pioneer Kuro (with Open Season as Blu-Ray movie). To me it seems like this "3D Look" is coming from true, full blacks.

[mpalmieri1203]

I don't think it's the 120Hz artificial look the OP saw.

I saw this 3D look myself. But only on a 720p/24p Pioneer Kuro (with Open Season as Blu-Ray movie). To me it seems like this "3D Look" is coming from true, full blacks.

Yes but he used the word "live" and that would be related to the video quality that settings like motionflow(an option on 120 Sonys). So I believe that 3D live look does not come from deep blacks but the options on a 120hz tv. I've seen a kuro and the BD looked like film not a pixar movie or episode of full house.

[Blinx123]

Hm. Ok. I'll test it this evening when I'm going to watch "The Chronicles Of Narnia: Prince Caspian". But all I remind so far it that the movies looked horrible with 120Hz Motionflow turned on (kind of pixelated in certain scenes and far from being 3D).

[mpalmieri1203]

Hm. Ok. I'll test it this evening when I'm going to watch "The Chronicles Of Narnia: Prince Caspian". But all I remind so far it that the movies looked horrible with 120Hz Motionflow turned on (kind of pixelated in certain scenes and far from being 3D).

Yup. I you're using a Sony and throw on some combination of motionflow and cinemotion you will get the live look but see digital artifacts from the process. It does make things a "live" or "sitcom" quality.

If you have a pixar BD use it on that. It will make the animation move faster than you are used to but also add a sense of depth to the picture. It looks like crap though and makes the animation appear cheap.

[Videguy]

I just bought a new Sony W4100. I found that by selecting standard instead of high motion smoothing, I do not get artifacting, at least not yet. I heard it was worse in the previous generation of Sonys, and not as good with the Samsung. UltimateAVmag's review of the W4100 said the motion smoothing was "much better than the XBR4." I have not tested Blu-ray motion smoothing since I don't have one yet, but a friend of mine says he never turns it off for anything, including his Blu-ray.

1) Does obtaining that look require a 1080P tv?

Most people don't even sit close enough to the TV for it make a difference.

Here's a chart of when 1080p and other higher resolutions actually become distinguishible to the human eye:

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

[epvtesb]

Thanks to everybody for responding. Yes, it's that "sitcom" look which I was ultimately looking for. I've seen it in the stores and was amazed. It's like a whole other version of a movie. I have a version of The Empire Strikes Back recorded from a laserdisc which had this look, and I always thought it was unique and kind of kool. Anyway, guess I'll have to add a new tv to my setup with 120hz feature on it to get there.
Just thought I was missing something in my current setup.
Oh well.

[MrLogan13]

Thanks to everybody for responding. Yes, it's that "sitcom" look which I was ultimately looking for. I've seen it in the stores and was amazed. It's like a whole other version of a movie. I have a version of The Empire Strikes Back recorded from a laserdisc which had this look, and I always thought it was unique and kind of kool. Anyway, guess I'll have to add a new tv to my setup with 120hz feature on it to get there.
Just thought I was missing something in my current setup.
Oh well.

The motion processing the TV does to achieve that look is detrimental to the image quality. As a previous poster already noted, it adds tons of artifacts and gives the motion a very unnatural look.

[Blinx123]

Yup. I you're using a Sony and throw on some combination of motionflow and cinemotion you will get the live look but see digital artifacts from the process. It does make things a "live" or "sitcom" quality.

If you have a pixar BD use it on that. It will make the animation move faster than you are used to but also add a sense of depth to the picture. It looks like crap though and makes the animation appear cheap.

I don't have a SONY but I think the LG I got has pretty much the same options.

I give it a try now. Wall-E is still in my drive from yesterdays movie watching.

[mpalmieri1203]

The effect is so terrible and ruins the integrity of the film.

Blu-ray is not about making movies look like video-games or seinfeld. It's about making the transfers look like acual FILM.

These adjustments compromise the whole basis of HD movies.

I have 52xbr5 for reference.

[Videguy]

I am anxious to see this the 120 hz motion smoothing (set to standard) on my W4100 with Blu-ray and HD-DVD because I am not getting artifacting with it set that way for HD & SD broadcasts, even in the HD football game I'm watching with it right now. There is a firmware update for the new Sony's as well, which needed applied even on the W4100 I picked up last weekend.

A friend of mine says it makes his Blu-ray playback look more "real" and "natural" as if you were actually there, so he isn't distracted by film-like jitter. I will get my HD-DVD player soon and test this out with those. But no complaints at all for SD and HD TV watching so far. But note, not all manufacturers have implemented the features the same, and I know the current generation of Sony's motionflow is an improvement.

I suggest trying it yourself.

[mpalmieri1203]

I am anxious to see this the 120 hz motion smoothing (set to standard) on my W4100 with Blu-ray and HD-DVD because I am not getting artifacting with it set that way for HD & SD broadcasts, even in the HD football game I'm watching with it right now. There is a firmware update for the new Sony's as well, which needed applied even on the W4100 I picked up last weekend.

A friend of mine says it makes his Blu-ray playback look more "real" and "natura" as if you were actually there, so he isn't distracted by film-like jitter. I will get my HD-DVD player soon and test this out with those. But no complaints at all for SD and HD TV watching so far. But note, not all manufacturers have implemented the features the same, and I know the current generation of Sony's motionflow is an improvement.

Unless it helps establish a more film-like experience it is worthless in my opinion.

I really find this set of options to defeat the purpose of blu-ray. Regardless of wether artifacts are introduced or not, it is unnatural. The film can look sped up and just outright strange.

Also to get the maximum effect you must set motionflow and cinemotion both to a certain setting and I'm not sure it's the maximum. In my opinion it's just a gimmick to sell more TVs to an uninformed public.

[Videguy]

Unless it helps establish a more film-like experience it is worthless in my opinion.

Well everyone has their right to an opinion. I haven't formed one yet, not having Blu-ray yet, but after hearing to opinions on both sides, I'm looking forward to trying it out since my TV supports it. It can be turned off. And who knows, I may prefer the jittery film-like look with my movies for the artistic effect rather than the smoothness of motionflow. So I'm not disagreeing with you. I think people need to come to their own conclusions.

I'm moving to HD-DVD & Blu-ray for the higher resolution video for the most part. The motion smoothing helps counteract motion blur on LCD tvs by improving motion resolution, so there's a blu-ray benefit in that sense, however, if someone prefers jittery film-like playback, they will not see the motion resolution benefit. I had looked into the Panasonic PU800 plama tv that has a 48hz 24p mode that gives a jittery film-like playback that's supposed to emulate movie theaters, but the reviews and owners reported they did not like the effect and ended up watching in standard mode.

Also to get the maximum effect you must set motionflow and cinemotion both to a certain setting and I'm not sure it's the maximum.

I know my friend does not set it for the maximum effect. He actually has the XBR4, which doesn't do motion smoothing as well as my W4100. He sets his motion flow to the middle setting like I do. Cinemotion needs set to auto1 to do frame interpolation. In auto2, it just does the inverse pulldown.

In my opinion it's just a gimmick to sell more TVs to an uninformed public.

I would say it's not a gimmick because it does what it's supposed to, motion smoothing and increased motion resolution, which is a noticable effect on the picture. Since some people prefer it, at least for certain content, I wouldn't call it a gimmick. But there is another advantage of 120 hz HDTVs even if motion smoothing isn't used. 120 hz refresh allows 24p content to be played back at the correct cadence rather than the 3:2 cadence associated with pulldown and 60 hz. This is because 24 divides evenly into 120, so each frame is displayed for the same amount of time.

I actually got my W4100 for less than the V4100 and S4100 were selling for pretty much everywhere. Correct 24p cadence and it's excellent black levels, vs. non-120 hz LCDs made it worth it to me, motion smoothing or not.

[mpalmieri1203]

Well everyone has their right to an opinion. I haven't formed one yet, not having Blu-ray yet, but after hearing to opinions on both sides, I'm looking forward to trying it out since my TV supports it. It can be turned off. And who knows, I may prefer the jittery film-like look with my movies for the artistic effect rather than the smoothness of motionflow. So I'm not disagreeing with you. I think people need to come to their own conclusions.

I'm moving to HD-DVD & Blu-ray for the higher resolution video for the most part. The motion smoothing helps counteract motion blur on LCD tvs by improving motion resolution, so there's a blu-ray benefit in that sense, however, if someone prefers jittery film-like playback, they will not see the motion resolution benefit. I had looked into the Panasonic PU800 plama tv that has a 48hz 24p mode that gives a jittery film-like playback that's supposed to emulate movie theaters, but the reviews and owners reported they did not like the effect and ended up watching in standard mode.

I know my friend does not set it for the maximum effect. He actually has the XBR4, which doesn't do motion smoothing as well as my W4100. He sets his motion flow to the middle setting like I do. Cinemotion needs set to auto1 to do frame interpolation. In auto2, it just does the inverse pulldown.

I would say it's not a gimmick because it does what it's supposed to, motion smoothing and increased motion resolution. Since some people prefer it, at least for certain content, I wouldn't call it a gimmick. But there is another advantage of 120 hz HDTVs even if motion smoothing isn't used. 120 hz refresh allows 24p content to be played back at the correct cadence rather than the 3:2 cadence associated with pulldown and 60 hz. This is because 24 divides evenly into 120, so each frame is displayed for the same amount of time.

I actually got my W4100 for less than the V4100 and S4100 were selling for pretty much everywhere. Correct 24p cadence and it's excellent black levels, vs. non-120 hz LCDs made it worth it to me, motion smoothing or not.

Yeah but 24p is what helps you attain that filmlike goal. all this motion enhancing crap defeats the purpose of 24fps. I get not jitter with cinemotion and motionflow turned off. Extremely natural picture calibrated using DVE and suggestions over at the AVS Wiki for XBR4&5s.

I feel that it is the modern day version of sharpness control. You can't add what's not there. And when the TV has to make guesses it's introducing an unnatural artifact, but I do agree to each their own.

It just makes movies look like soap operas. And you don't need Blu-ray or HD-DVD to see it's effects.