jsmiddleton4 - Please don't forget us BD10AK owners

[dsskid]

JS,
Can you be our voice as well? There are a few BD10AK issues that I haven't been able to get a response from Panasonic about. If you could communicate on our behalf, it would be greatly appreciated.

Can you inquire as to if there will be firmware updates for:

• DTS HD-MA
• LFE issue

Thanks,

John

[comixguru]

DTS-HD Master Audio is not an option for the 10AK. Give up the ghost.

LFE problem is a problem, though. I did wish they would fix this. I personally have made adjustments for it and it sounds fine to me... but it would be better if I didn't have to pump up all the low end.

-comix

[jsmiddleton4]

Wish I could help but its not really up to me. Panasonic has made decisions about the BD10 and when the LFE matter was fixed for the BD30, the BD10's hardware is/was different enough that it could not be addressed in the same way as the BD30. So the BD10 was left as is. I wish had better news for you.

[dsskid]

Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4

Wish I could help but its not really up to me. Panasonic has made decisions about the BD10 and when the LFE matter was fixed for the BD30, the BD10's hardware is/was different enough that it could not be addressed in the same way as the BD30. So the BD10 was left as is. I wish had better news for you.

Ok, I won't shoot the messenger, thanks for the info.

It's a shame that Panasonic isn't standing behind their product, even though we've spent just as much on the BD10 as they are selling the BD30 for. I guess that's the price we pay for early adoption.

[Solstice X]

Originally Posted by dsskid

Ok, I won't shoot the messenger, thanks for the info.

It's a shame that Panasonic isn't standing behind their product, even though we've spent just as much on the BD10 as they are selling the BD30 for. I guess that's the price we pay for early adoption.

I also own the BD10, I bought it when it first came out at a cool $1300. Anyway, much was discussed on this forum and other forums about DTS-HD MA support. Insiders who new about the Sigma chip in the player later stated that the player didn't have the raw horsepower to decode it, but that it was perfectly capable of decoding TrueHD. As for the LFE issue, Panasonic did look in to it and it was determined that it would require much more than what was done for the BD-30.

Though it is my favorite player, great upscaling and well, it just looks so freakin sexy; I eventually moved it to my living room setup since I don't have a surround system there.

Hope that answers your questions.

[jsmiddleton4]

Thanks for not shooting the messenger. I am just an end user. I am of the opinion that this isn't fair: "It's a shame that Panasonic isn't standing behind their product". Its not that Panasonic isn't standing behind the BD10. If you have an issue with something regarding the way it is suppose to perform, I am certain Panasonic will help you and support the BD10. When it comes to staying current, that is a different matter than "standing behind..." a product.

The BD10's hardware is only capable of just so much. That reality is what surfaced with the LFE thing. Panasonic did look into it and if it could have been addressed, they were ready to do so. It was a hardware issue and not a firmware issue and they bumped up against its hardware limitations.

Doesn't make it any easier to live with and I'm not in any way dismissing the frustration of spending what the BD10 cost and being left behind. One of the risks of early adoption I'd say.

Jim

[dsskid]

For the sake of discussion,

If you have an issue with something regarding the way it is suppose to perform, I am certain Panasonic will help you and support the BD10.

The "LFE Bug" is very much an issue regarding the way it is supposed to perform, and nothing to do with

staying current.

It is a defect, and it is not supposed to be there, yet Panasonic is doing nothing about it. I'm sorry if it's not something that is easily fixed via a firmware update much in the way the BD30 was, but if it's a hardware upgrade that is required, they should be upgrading it, very much the way GM, Toyota, etc issue recalls.

Just because it's not any easy fix, does not mean that it should be ignored.

Sorry, just needed to vent just a bit.

[jsmiddleton4]

I would call them dss. Get your issue on file at least.

Jim

[dsskid]

Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4

I would call them dss. Get your issue on file at least.

Jim

I have, since May when they gave me a case number. I called regarding the original case number earlier this afternoon to get status, and they acknowledged it as being open, but I wasn't given . I was told once again that they'd have their engineers call me back, which they never did in May.

I also sent in another email via the contact page again explaining the situation, and no doubt they'll assign another case number, hopefully someone will eventually get back to me. Very frustrating.

They should either do a firmware fix, or recall them for a hardware modification, or upgrade the BD10 owners to a B30 or B50. They should do something, it's a defect. To ignore it just isn't right.

I appreciate you calling on it. Nice to see the average guy having a voice. Thank you.

[dsskid]

Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4

I would call them dss. Get your issue on file at least.

Jim

The case number is 25386491.

The response I received in May 2008:

"Dear MR XXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your inquiry regarding your Panasonic product DMPBD10A. We
are currently researching the issue and advise you to provide an email
address so we are able to notify you when we have reached a resolution.

Thank You,
Panasonic Consumer Support"

To which I immediately resent my contact information.
I contacted them again yesterday for resolution and this is the response that I received this morning:

Dear MR XXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your response. DTS capability is going to have to come from
a source such as a home theater system. Firmware will not be available to
speed any load times of Blu Ray discs, that comes from the system and how
the unit is built.

Thank You,
Panasonic Consumer Support

What a horrible response. I was not looking for faster load times at all. As I stated each time I contacted them, I was looking for them to fix the LFE bug on the BD10.

My response to Panasonic this morning:

What kind of answer is that??? Your unit is artificially lowing the LFE by -15 db through HDMI when the setting is set to PCM, when it should only be lowering it by -10db, and then the AVR eaises it by the standard 10db. The unit is defectiive whereby it is lowering the LFE by 5db too much.

I've never asked for faster load times, and I'm not looking additional codecs. I'm looking for the unit to be handling the LFE correctly, according to industry standard, which it does not. Panasonic obviously knows of the defect, because they fixed it on the BD30. Why won't you fix it on the BD10?

In my opinion, Panasonic's customer service/care is horrible. I'm not asking for anything more than I paid for. They sold a defective unit and aren't doing anything about it. I wish I could get a class action suit started against them.

[jsmiddleton4]

Good luck.

[dsskid]

Thanks for your help.

[jsmiddleton4]

I feel your pain dss. If I had any way to change the matter for you I would do whatever that is. Other than passing along information that we already know about in terms of the BD10, I don't have the kind of influence that it takes to redirect a company like Panasonic in regards to products they have clearly decided are "legacy" products.

Again and not to excuse Panasonic for your experience with the BD10, there are risk being early adopters. If there is any balance to this thing so it doesn't get too crazy, that would be part of the equation.

You may have to get group of BD10 owners organized and make it cost more for Panasonic to not fix it than to fix it. My guess is they'd just swap the players for new models if it came to that. Clearly Panasonic decided the cost to fix it cost more than its worth to them. Frustrating as that is, it is at least understandable. Not judging right or wrong, just that it is understandable nor uncommon.

I have 2 friends with BD10's. I can tell you they are satisfied enough with them that for now they are not changing hardware nor would they be easily recruited into a class action law suit. They like them and know full well about the LFE matter. One of them is the gentleman I buy my home theater electronics from who is waiting until Christmas for lower prices and more selection before he does anything.

Again good luck. Its not an easy thing to force a company like Panasonic to change course. If you can, I'm sure there are many BD10 owners who will name their next child after you.

Jim

[dsskid]

Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4

I feel your pain dss. If I had any way to change the matter for you I would do whatever that is. Other than passing along information that we already know about in terms of the BD10, I don't have the kind of influence that it takes to redirect a company like Panasonic in regards to products they have clearly decided are "legacy" products.

Again and not to excuse Panasonic for your experience with the BD10, there are risk being early adopters. If there is any balance to this thing so it doesn't get too crazy, that would be part of the equation.

You may have to get group of BD10 owners organized and make it cost more for Panasonic to not fix it than to fix it. My guess is they'd just swap the players for new models if it came to that. Clearly Panasonic decided the cost to fix it cost more than its worth to them. Frustrating as that is, it is at least understandable. Not judging right or wrong, just that it is understandable nor uncommon.

I have 2 friends with BD10's. I can tell you they are satisfied enough with them that for now they are not changing hardware nor would they be easily recruited into a class action law suit. They like them and know full well about the LFE matter. One of them is the gentleman I buy my home theater electronics from who is waiting until Christmas for lower prices and more selection before he does anything.

Again good luck. Its not an easy thing to force a company like Panasonic to change course. If you can, I'm sure there are many BD10 owners who will name their next child after you.

Jim

I know that you don't have that kind of influence. I was thanking you for your offer to call them on our behalf.

The shortcomings of Profile 1.0 (no pic-in-pic, or BD Live, which I don't care about, and not having DTS-HD MA) is the acceptable risk of being an early adopter, but a defective product should not be.

The consumer shouldn't have to initiate a class action suit for a CE to fix a defect. I am kinda sick hearing about how Panasonic stands by their products, which from my experience, clearly isn't the case.

But thank you again for calling on my behalf, and for listening, because I know you are not a Panasonic employee, and are not compensated for doing so. Thank you.

[jsmiddleton4]

My daughter does video editing. Uses a particular company's software. Each and every time the company offers a new product, they stop development on the older products and leave bugs in place. They flat out tell them that if they want the bugs fixed, they have to move up the product offerings to the next version and they are out of luck with any bugs being fixed. The software cost more than your BD10.

And as of yet despite many threats and pissed off customers, nothing has changed and because the software is so widely used, no one changes to a different software.

It totally sucks and as consumers we've allowed companies to do this kind of thing. But for companies, taking a business point of view, when the cost to fix something is bigger than the cost of not fixing it, I get it.

As for Panasonic's support, it could be part of their motivation in terms of how they have handled the BD30 is a desire to change how its handled.

Also inside the BD30 is very different than the BD10. The guts of the BD30 are what Panasonic is selling to other companies. Could be having a broader view in terms of sales also changed their mindset on support for the BD30. I don't know. What I do know is they have gone out of their way for the BD30's support.

Jim