Tier System for Blu-ray

[Cinema Squid]

I'm afraid I'm not very interested in the thread on AVS. This is the thread that is spreading misinformation.

I think you may have dismissed the suggested AVS thread too quickly - that is brand new thread started to specifically address the perceived problems with the video tier threads by approaching discs from a perspective of theatrical accuracy - i.e. a "grain lovers" or anti-DNR ranking thread if you will. Personally, I think this is a quixotic task since the filmmakers' intent is impossible to fully fathom and to participate fully you would need to be 60+ years old with a photographic memory in order to recall all the details of the first-generation print you presumably saw at the film's premiere.

I do agree with your objection to the Tier 1 description as "an improvement on the theatrical run" as a questionable premise. I think the regular AVS tier thread has come to terms with the fact that it is strictly an eye-candy thread and that tier rankings are now primarily derived on a comparative basis - in other words, this BD looks better than this BD independent of the filmmakers' intent. From that perspective, the tier descriptions in the first post of this thread I think are a well-written statement of intent while the labels attached to the tiers in posts #2-3 might be a little misleading.

The primary objection to this kind of comparison seems to be that it unfairly discriminates against film (especially older film) in favor of video-like presentation (whether from HD camera, CGI, or DNR-ed film sources). However, while video-like titles do tend to rank highly, they do not utterly dominate material that still retains the characteristics of film. As eNoize so eloquently pointed out, these rankings are subjective and not everyone's tastes agree to what looks best. With a broader range of input, then the tier threads will reflect a broader range of tastes.

[eNoize]

Speaking of AVS, the original tier thread quickly fell apart because of its many drawbacks and questionable methodology. I wrote this thread as a means of addressing those issues and hopefully improving upon it -- artistic intentions are too difficult to assess, and as such, the tier system is purely for demo purposes. Later, a second tier thread was created at AVS, using our system but with the requisite that all opinions must include screen size, which I'm sure plays a role in who thinks they see a better picture. Personally, I feel that method is bias towards those with bigger screens.

Originally, I did not write titles for each tier because I thought that might confuse things. But after receiving many PM's from folks which had difficulty determining where a title should be placed, I added titles, hoping that would take care of the issue. And it did, at least for a while it seemed. This system is open to opinion as a means to improve it, and obviously, your thoughts are not ignored. This thread is for the forum members and I'm here only to update the list as each assessment is posted.

I have changed the titles of each tier to better reflect the thoughts being expressed here. As always, please voice your opinions. Another thought is that we might change each tier to an alphabetical order of titles, so as to eliminate the comparison of one title to the next, although I believe Tier 0 should stand as it is -- those are the reference quality discs, after all. Please let me know what everyone thinks of that method.

As always, thanks to everyone for participating.

[Word]

Even basing these new transers off the original theatrical run isn't very accurate. It is the same bases as using everyones home theatre which would be a different set-up for each person.

Every theatre is going to be different in some regard. While I don't know for sure, but I think it is pretty safe to assume each theatre's equipment is different. The new theatre that opened near me has at least 3 different size screens and they use both film and digital projectors for the same movie where they charge more and advertise a "better picture" on the digital projectors.

I guess I'm just not sure how you want to place the new titles going forward. Natural Born Killers is probably 100% faithful to the theatrical run, possibly better. Previously, I would have put it above 28 Days Later or higher in Tier 3 on a comparison basis due to the different filming styles used. But based on the new Tier titles, it would probably go in Tier 1 or top of Tier 2.

[eNoize]

Well, I've decided to revert back to the original titles of each Tier. It worked fine in the beginning and I'm sure it will continue to work. I also want to continue with the methodology of comparing the PQ of each title with one another. It is not a judgment or criticism of artistic intention, but the best means of giving others an idea of what the picture quality looks like: I have an idea of what The Omega Man looks like on BD because I have seen The Fly and others think the transfer quality is similar.

Personally, I like to use a five-star rating system when deciding where to place a title in the Tier system. Tier 0 is obviously 5 stars; Tier 1 is 4 1/2 stars; Tier 2 is 4 stars; Tier 3 is 3 1/2 stars; Tier 4 is 3 stars; and finally, Tier 5 is 2 stars or less. Again, this is how it works for me, but others I'm sure have different methods.

Word,
If you think the PQ of Natural Born Killers is similar to 28 Days Later, then let's go with that.
I also added the following to the list:
The Bucket List, low Tier 2
The Signal, mid Tier 3
and The Air I Breathe, mid-high Tier 3

[Word]

Natural Born Killers is fine where it is. eNoize, have you watched There Will Be Blood yet? I'd like to know where you would place it.

The Longest Day - This one looked great to me, similar to Patton. Not much detail on faces, even on close-ups but the rest of the movie looked great. I would put it in Tier 1 below Patton.

Battle of Britain was suggested by Godstar for Tier 4 and Signs, top of Tier 3 by JackHunt. I think Magnum Force should be moved into Tier 3, I thought it looked better and more consistent than Dirty Harry.

[eNoize]

Sadly, no. I haven't had a chance yet to watch it -- it's sitting on my shelf waiting to be watched. I love the film and am sure the PQ is beautiful; but I been really busy lately with work and family. I aim to watch it this weekend.

Just watched Cloverfield last weekend and agree with the placement. I still need to catch up on some others: The Other Boleyn Girl, Be Kind Rewind, Men in Black, and So I Married an Ax Murderer. But I'll get back to you as soon as I have a chance.

Added the following:

The Longest Day, low Tier 1
Battle of Britain, mid Tier 4
Signs, high Tier 3
and Magnum Force moved to high Tier 4.

Thanks again to everyone for participating in updating the list.

[Jchap31]

That's disappointing. I was hoping to pick up some older movies like Longest Day. Guess I'll wait.

[JackHunt]

Dirty Harry Top Tier 2:

A big improvement over the SD DVD, easy buy. For lack of better words, Dirty Harry kicks ass in HD.

[Word]

10,000 B.C. - Tier 1, below Apocalypto.
The Other Boleyn Girl - Tier 1, above Fantastic 4: Silver Surfer
Men in Black - Tier 2, above Ladder 49
Be Kind Rewind - Tier 3, above Semi-Pro
Anger Management - Tier 3, below Click
Company (2007) - Tier 3, above Click

[JackHunt]

The Fountain: Bottom of Tier 1.

Pretty touching movie and the PQ is very good.

[alintel]

Battle of Britain-mid level 2

[eNoize]

Damn, I'm really slow ain't I?! Sorry, folks.

Here's the update with a few of my own votes at the end:

Dirty Harry, moved up to top Tier 3
10,000 B.C., high Tier 1 -- I agree with this vote
The Other Boleyn Girl, high Tier 1 -- I would vote around National Treasure 2, so it's placed in between both votes
Men in Black, mid-low Tier 2 -- I agree with the vote
Be Kind Rewind, top Tier 3 -- I would've voted low Tier 2, so it's placed in the middle
Anger Management, high-mid Tier 3
Company, high-mid Tier 3
The Fountain, bottom of Tier 1
Battle of Britain, moved up to mid Tier 3 from Tier 4
Master and Commander, mid-low Tier 3
Meet the Spartans, low Tier 1
So I Married An Axe Murderer, mid-low Tier 3
Jumper, mid Tier 2
The Spiderwick Chronicles, high-mid Tier 2
Short Circuit, bottom Tier 3 -- plenty of nice scenes, but not consistent

[irrob]

Next- tier 2
Sharkwater- bottom tier 3. very inconsistent
V for Vendetta- bottom tier 1

[JAWoOKIE]

I gotta vote for The Orphanage to move up a bit. Just watched it last night, looks great and sounds even better.

[eNoize]

list updated with the following:

Next, mid Tier 2
Sharkwater, low Tier 3
V for Vendetta, low Tier 1
The Orphanage, bottom Tier 0
Dirty Harry, I would vote mid Tier 3, so it goes in between
Persepolis, I vote bottom Tier 0 -- may not be the first disc to pull out for a demo, but the PQ is exceptionally clean with great dimensionality.
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, high Tier 2